Early Speculation for The Villains in the Next Batman Movie

Killer Croc was actually in the animated series they did as a prequel to Dark Knight. So he's already been in and out.

I also wanted to point out Black Mask (Because he comes in the comic right after the Mafia has fallen apart) and Ra's Al Ghul's Daughter, because she could bring the trilogy full circle.

HERE IT IS:

I say Catwoman.

When Bruce and Lucius are talking about the suit, Bruce says, "will it protect against dogs?" Lucius says, "Rottweilers or chihuahuas? It might protect against a cat."

Personally, I would love to see the Riddler in the next movie. I agreed with everything you said about him. With the darker way that Nolan is taking these films, I think the Riddler would be a perfect fit for the next movie. He deserves to have the darker side of him shown.

I'm totally for Black Mask but the INSANE Black Mask of War Drums/Games/Crimes.
I think that might be one of the most overlooked arcs. Black Mask was GENIUS in it. I'd just like to see a crazy Black Mask because he was really kind of dull in the beginning, but fitting him in fits with the early years of Batman. I'd really just like to see people that have not been Batman movies before. I think Holiday is also a likely candidate.

Szasz was actually mentioned in the first movie as having escaped from Arkham and Catwoman can be added for obvious seasoning. Who you cast as Catwoman is another discussion...

**SPOILER WARNING**

Let's not forget that Two-Face should be considered a viable option for the third film. I know, I know...he's "dead" right? Re-watch The Dark Knight, and you will notice:

1. A recurring theme of people faking death (Joker, Gordon).
2. The scene where Batman is trying to shake Maroni into revealing the Joker's location...remember that he drops him from a height that, Maroni points out, won't kill him. Batman and Two-Face fall from a similar height. Why, in a film where 45 minutes or so was cut for length, would they keep this scene, since it's more or less unnecessary?
3. Batman and Gordon do not explicitly state that Two-Face is dead, and with his good eye closed, he does appear to be simply knocked out.
4. After Batman sends Two-Face off the building, the coin that Two-Face flipped to determine the fate of Gordon's son lands on "heads". True, this is likely referencing that Gordon's son is going to live, but could also be a foreshadow.
5. The cops surrounding the perimeter of the building where Two-Face, Gordon, and Batman face-off never actually see Two-Face or approach the building, since Batman immediately runs and Gordon sends them to go give chase. So, they would not actually know that Two-Face was there, and Gordon can be given a chance to hide him.

I mentioned to a friend the other day that a potential subplot of the third film could involve the Riddler determining that Two-Face is alive and locked away somewhere, and ultimately springing him. Lest we forget that the Riddler, at his most realistic, is extremely intelligent and good and piecing information together.

Oh, and apparently, some sources are reporting that there is enough footage of Ledger on the cutting room floor to manufacture some sort of appearance in the third film. For example, does anyone notice that there really isn't an "arrest" or incarceration scene of him, which you think would logically but cut into the closing montage of Gordon, Dent, and Batman running?

Of course, this all may be wishful thinking, as the one element of The Dark Knight that miffed me was the perceived "death" of Two-Face, since I thought they were taking away a potentially phenomenal villain of future films (and short-changing Aaron Eckert, especially since without Heath Ledger, we would need an actor of his strength in a villain role).

By the way...Aaron Eckert has publicly, following the release of The Dark Knight, mentioned that he would like to come back for the third film.

Erik

I am all for The Riddler. I honestly think it would be a fantastic choice to make even more of a suspenseful movie, and the buzz going around about Johnny Depp makes me all the more excited.

The Penguin, not so much. IMHO, he's just a glorified rich gangster who looks funny and like the antarctic a bit too much.

Also definitely thought about the Catwoman idea, especially now that Dawes is gone.

But has anyone considered Harley Quinn? The Joker is a major villain in The Batman universe, and now that Ledger is gone (R.I.P. We all miss you horribly), Nolan might be looking for a way to tie up The Jokers loose ends with Harley. She is really cartoonish, yes, but her deranged and obsessive devotion to The Joker might just be able to play well into the themes that Nolan is going for. Sure, it might not fit into the next movie, but maybe another (if there is one) because it certainly feels as though these movies should just keep going.

What about Rachel McAdams? She's not only an underrated actress, but she has quite strong features on her face that would look great under a mask like Catwoman's.
Just a thought.
Plus she's not such a high profile actor that she'll overshadow other elements of the film.
Btw, I would love to see Hush. He would fit in well with the Riddler and Catwoman angle everyone seems to believe the third film will take. That and the first Hush storyline (and a lot of following ones) all seem to involve the Riddler and Catwoman to some extent. Just my opinion.
And I would cast someone like Ewan MacGregor as Hush. He has the charming/sleazy style that could fit Thomas Elliot (A dark mirror Bruce Wayne pretty much) as well as the aggressive and violent Hush persona.
Finally, the way Batman and Hush are both the men each other wanted to become (Bruce a doctor like his father/ Thomas a millionaire playboy) fits perfectly with where BB and TDK have been heading, not to mention the obsession with Bruce that a certain Riddler has...
Don't know who I'd cast as Riddler...

I think the one guy made an excellent suggestion of Harley Quinn. With the Joker still alive in the movie world and Heath Ledger dead in the real one, Harley Quinn could be the bridge. She started out as Joker's psychiatrist in Arkham and was slowly turned insane by his mind games. It wouldn't be too unrealistic to see HQ carrying out Mista J's plans while he's locked up. Or maybe have Joker die in Arkham, which would lead the doctor (who was secretly in love with him) to snap and take on the new persona of Harley Quinn. Kristen Bell would be great Harley Quinn: she's cute, has a great body, and her stint on Heroes showed she can pull off that whole "laughing maniacally while slaughtering innocent people" shtick.

I guess Two-Face coming back isn't a terrible stretch, though I think it was never Nolan's intention to bring him back. It would be an interesting juxtaposition to Dark Knight's alliance of Batman, Dent, and Gordon; this time they'd all be fighting one another. Though it would be hard to maintain Batman guilt in killing all the people Dent killed with Two-Face still offing crime bosses and cops.

With this whole Batman VS. the GCPD angle that's been set up, there's a lot of potential to bring in a lot of villians. Riddler could be a specialist assigned to the GCPD to help track down Batman (while of course stroking his own ulterior motives). Bane could come in as a bounty hunter for either the mob or the cops after someone puts a price on the Bat's head. Catwoman could take advantage of Batman's preoccupation with not being arrested/murdered and go on a crime spree.

With Carmine in Arkham and Moroni dead, the mob is left wide open; another great way to bring in some new villains. And as The Joker said, Batman has "changed things. There's no going back." This gives a chance for some of the real freaks to come out and vie for control of Gotham's underworld. It'd be a great time to bring in Penguin. Drop the silly gimmick and just have him be a short, ugly mobster who wears a tuxedo. If he must keep the umbrella, have it just be a regular umbrella that he might conceal a gun inside. The Ventriloquist could be a cool candidate for mob boss if done correctly. Have it be one of the inmates who escaped Arkham in Batman Begins, or even Carmine himself driven crazy by Scarecrow's toxin. I'll even go out on a limb and suggest the Royal Flush Gang, who could be awesome if handled right.

ok, as a girl who is a huge batdork i would really love to see more female characters, possibly a villian. its been a freakin sausagefest in both movies. There really is just one female character, Rachel Dawes, who i never particularly liked (i did think Maggie Gyllenhaal did a good job with her though, so much better than Katie Holmes bleh).
Nolan has the oppurtunity now to introduce one of the three main batman villainesses and aside from being sexy (which is always the main concern,sigh), he can make them dark and interesting yet fun to watch on screen.
Firstly, there is Catwoman. Catwoman is a pretty cool character, i have to admit, and she was always my favorite as a kid, watching her on BTAS. A good thing about kitty is that she doesnt have to be a villain. She could just as easily be an anti-hero or even help Bats, filling the void left by the death of Rachel and the resignation of Lucious. I am a bit skeptical of using her, though, because Catwoman has had so much screen time (i dont count halle berrys)and appeared in the comics for so long that i dont know if i really want to see her in the next film. oh well, if shes in the next one, i would love to see the design of her catsuit.

Next, we have Poison Ivy. Of course in Nolanverse she cant have any plant powers, but she could still be an eco-terrorist. i dont know how much you could do with that but not a bad idea really (a bit far-fetched, but then again how about that guy in the batsuit?). Ivy's rep really needs a face lift too since batman and robin (the material isnt that ridiclous when you read it in the comic, but on screen, "OH MY GOD!" everyone flips a shit. personally i love that movie, in all its campy, godawful goodness). Overall, i think even the Great Nolan of Oz would have trouble making Poison Ivy's character work in the real world. I'm not really into the idea myself, but you never know, it could work.

Finally, there is my favorite, Harley Quinn. While she is by far my fav batman character, how could she work? Well, since Harleen Quinzel was joker's shrink in the asylum, there is the obvious "she can do Joker's dirty work while hes in Arkham." While I grudgingly agree that it works, where's the fun in that? If Ledger was still alive (RIP, God bless) to play his magnificent clown prince, i would be for Harley all the way. Can you imagine the two of them, paintin the town red (hehe i wonder what with?:). But without him there (i doubt Joker would be recast), that would be a waste of her big screen debut, wouldnt it? No joker to cause trouble with? And how would they explain her without him? HE is her purpose, her motivation, he is what made her Harley Quinn. If there is no onscreen interaction between them showing her as his psychiatrist and the relationship between them, her character seems a bit pointless to me. With no Joker, there should be no Harley. Im not saying this because she isnt a strong or good character on her own, im saying it because it wouldnt make as much sense and, quite frankly, wouldnt be as much fun.
oh well, anyway, i certainly hope that they make a third movie at any rate. Apart from any females (forgive my inner raging feminist) i think that Nolan could work his magic on some of the more, eh, fanciful villains. Mad Hatter perhaps? id just love to see what he could do with something like that. Also, i know he was in both Begins and TDK, but i really would really like to see more Scarecrow. perhaps this is because im a murphy fangirl but fuck it, bring on the Cillian! WHOOT!!! :)

Ok, I have thought about this long and hard and the villain I think the main villain in the next Nolan Batman movie should be…(drum roll please)…the Penguin. Yeah, I know a lot of people out there are against the Penguin, and I know Chris Nolan has stated that he believes the Penguin would be one of the harder villains to pull off, but I humbly disagree. Bare with me as I list the reasons why I think he would work and why I think he is one of the best, most unappreciated Batman foes, as well as counter some familiar criticism about him:

1) He is realistic: The thing about the Penguin, like almost all of Batman's Golden Age foes, is that technically he his not a super-villain - he is an arch criminal. And there is a big differenced between the two. A super-villain is just the evil version of a super-hero, someone who possesses powers and abilities beyond us, while an arch-criminal is a specific type of criminal in the real world but shown in a larger than life manner. Catwoman is the femme fatale/cat-burglar writ large; Joker is the psychotic anarchist criminal; Two-Face is the idea of victim turned criminal; hell, Batman isn’t even a superhero in the original comics or Nolan’s series, he is a classic pulp masked vigilante, more akin to the Shadow, the Spider, The Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro than Superman or Spider-Man. The Penguin fits right in there with that same vibe, since he represents the professional, organized criminal (with an added touch of being flamboyant and stylish). Having said that, it makes it easier for me to believe that a flamboyant gangster with an gun hidden in an umbrella fits Nolan’s universe more than a man with a freeze gun or a woman who can control plants does.

As an arch-version of a gangster, have the Penguin be the new crime boss in Gotham. With all the chaos that the Joker caused, it wouldn’t be that hard to believe that the underworld would be turning to someone to bring order and help them reorganize, and I could even see the normal citizens and politicians of Gotham support him. After the fall of Saddam in Iraq, chaos reigned in Iraq and one of the big fears amongst our politicians and military experts was that the people of Gotham would turn to a strongman and dictator preferring tyranny to anarchy. Same thing happened in Germany after WWI when Hitler rose to power. Well, after Batman smashed the mobs to only have the Joker fill their void; I can easily see the people of Gotham saying they wouldn’t mind a strong organized crime boss keeping the crooks in line – they might still have crime but at least the wouldn’t have anarchy. And from such roots tyrannies are built.

2) He is both dangerous and intelligent: The Penguin in his early history wasn’t nearly as ridiculous or as incompetent as he is now. In his first couple of appearances he killed people, maybe not as often as the Joker but he definitely had a ruthless streak. He also was the first villain to actually escape from Batman and outsmart him. The Joker got busted by Batman in all of his first appearance (or at least appeared to mysteriously die), but not the Penguin; an actual running theme in all of Penguin’s early stories was that he somehow managed to escape. This only stopped after the editorial staff demanded that the Joker stop killing people and the Penguin stopped getting away because they felt it showed that crime did pay.

The other thing about being intelligent means he plots. He has his own goals and ambitions which do not always involve Batman. What realistic plots could Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Bane or Deadshot have? I mean, Bane and Deadshot would have only one goal/plot – kill Batman. Doesn’t really give the screenwriter’s much to work with. The Penguin, on the other hand, would want to pull of crimes, become the boss of Gotham AND kill Batman (or at least neutralize him). Plenty of more material for the screenwriters to work with.

3) “But isn’t he ridiculous and corny?”: He was not nearly as cheesy as Joker was in the late 40’s through the 60’s. Sure he used trick umbrellas, but Joker was doing just as corny things, like having his own utility belt or trying to have a contest with Clay-Face. And while Joker was allowed to be updated and modernized, for some reason the Penguin has been forced to stay in same old character-mold when Burgess Meredith did him. That would be like letting the Caesar Romero interpretation of the Joker be the definitive one.

However, if I can offer a suggestion to help make the Penguin relevant again, it would for him to lose the top hat and tuxedo (or at least not wear it all the time). When he originally appeared that was the clothes of choice for a sophisticated gentleman going out on the town, but not anymore. He should be dressed in sartorial splendor by today’s standards, wearing Armani and Brioni suits, with Seville Row shirts and an expensive Burberry coats, and replacing his cigarette holder for expensive cigars. I mean if Lex Luthor can get a makeover and not have to wear the lab coat or the grey smock he wore when he first appeared, why does the Penguin have to so fashionably out of date?

And yes he has a funny name and appearance, but who says criminal masterminds have to be scary looking? I mean, look at the history of the mob in the U.S and you’ll see that most crime bosses had funny nicknames and were not that intimidating looking: Tony The Ant, Joey the Clown, Murray “the Camel” Humphreys, Vinnie the Chin, etc. Crossed them, however, and you’d be wearing concrete shoes at the bottom of Gotham Bay. Make the Penguin a short, sartorially aware crime boss who earned his nickname because of his walk (imagine Vito from the Sopranos) and uses an umbrella as a cane just like how some people use a putter as a cane.

And the thing about the Penguin is that he supposed to be underestimated (just like how Verbal Kent/Keyser Soze was underestimated in the Usual Suspects). It is the reason the umbrella was chosen as his weapon – it serves as a metaphor for the Penguin’s character and nature. Like his umbrellas, the Penguin appears as something completely harmless and even mundane, but also like his umbrellas it actually conceals something very deadly that people completely underestimate. The umbrella doesn’t have to be outfitted with a hundred different weapons, just the ones he had when he first appeared – a concealed blade and gun (plus it is weighted to be used as a bludgeon).

Besides, who says ridiculous looking people can’t be powerful or scary? I mean, the world was terrorized by a short little Corsican in the early 19th century, and in the 20th century an Austrian painter with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and a tendency to yell comically during rallies became the greatest villain in history.

4) Go back to the basics: Just like how Nolan only used those elements from the Joker that would fit his version of Batman, so could Nolan cherry pick through the Penguin and only use those elements that mesh with his vision. I mean, Nolan pretty much discarded anything about the Joker post 1940’s, getting rid of the entire Red Hood origin and focusing only on his first couple of appearances. Well, the same could be done with the Penguin: hell, his real name of Oswald Cobblepot wasn’t revealed until 1981 in DC Comics Blue Ribbon Digest, along with his origin of being a rich kid raised by an over protective mother. For 40 some years he wasn’t hampered by that ridiculous back-story and tacky name, but instead was just a sophisticated criminal who had an interesting nickname and gimmick (umbrellas and birds). That leaves you plenty of room to reinterpret him.

Like the Joker, they should avoid an origin story and have the Penguin entire as a complete character. And also like the Joker, it should be a story about the rise of the Penguin (similar to his very first appearances in the 40s). The Penguin appears, is underestimated by even the other criminals, and before anyone knows it he is the head of crime in Gotham City.

5) “But the Penguin isn’t a physical threat for Batman”: Many people will say that the Penguin would not be as intimidating or as dangerous as the Joker, and wouldn’t scare the audience as much as the Joker did, or have them view him as a big enough threat. I have to say yes and no to that idea. Yes, on a personal one-on-one basis the Penguin is not going to give Batman as good as fight as the Joker, but than again the Joker wasn’t that much of a physical threat to Batman either. The Joker in the Dark Knight mostly challenged Batman’s belief system, not his physical safety. Also, who says that a great villain has to be a physical threat? I mean, Goldfinger and Blofield are probably Bond’s greatest challenges, and they are no matches for him physically. Same with Moriarity, Sherlock Holmes arch enemy, and Superman’s foe Lex Luthor.

Plus, why should the Penguin be required to fight Batman one-on-one? If the Penguin truly is a criminal mastermind he would avoid confronting the Dark Knight any way he could. Why fight a master of martial arts? Instead, a smart crime boss would instead have henchmen and minions fight Batman, and some of those guys could be pretty tough. Think of Bond movies where the main villain always had one or two really tough henchmen who served him.

Or look at gangster movies like the Godfather or the Untouchables, where the big boss isn’t always the toughest guy out there. Vito and Michael Corleone are not fighters like Sonny, but ruthless crime bosses who command killers like Luca Brassi and Al Neri. Sure they are capable of killing people, but usually by being cunning and taking people by surprise. They are not soldier’s however (excluding Michael’s stint in the marines, of course) but manipulators. The same with Al Capone in the Untouchables: he might bash someone’s head in at a meeting, but that doesn’t display his toughness as much as his willingness to kill and be ruthless. He isn’t dumb enough to take on Elliot Ness himself, but instead sends his own killers such as Frank Nitti against him and his Untouchables.

Instead of having the Penguin physically confront Batman, have some of his henchmen confront the Caped Crusader. Amongst his servants could be a who’s who of tough-guy character actors: Chuck Zito, Danny Trejo, Kimbo Slice, Tyler Mane, Brock Lesnar, etc. Plus, who is to say the Penguin has to be the only villain in the movie? I mean, I could easily see him harboring hatred for both Batman and a female cat burglar who won’t bow to his rule, or him having a couple of tough enforcers that work for him (maybe one who is a “deadshot with pistols and the other has a rare skin disorder that makes him look like an alligator or crocodile).

6) The Penguin could represent a new type of villain and be more relevant: The Joker (and Scarecrow and Ra’s al Ghul) are basically metaphors for terrorism and the anarchistic, nihilistic forces out there. And since 9-11 that has been the public’s biggest worry. But since the collapse of the economy I believe people will have find someone new that they hate more, and that is CEOs, the heads of Wall Streets and politicians. Basically, all of the powerful people who they feel control their lives and they are powerless to stop because they are too rich and connected. And the Penguin can represents those forces much better than any other Batman foe could. Just like in the 50’s and 60s in such movies as Underworld USA and Point Blank, where the underworld used as a metaphor for the corporate world, so could the Penguin be used to represents the heads of businesses and the hedge fund managers who manipulate the government for their own profit.

And like the Joker who had a philosophy why he did all of this (he was a nihilist who wanted to throw Gotham in anarchy), the Penguin would be a man who believes everyone has a price – even Batman. Sure, sometimes the price isn’t money, but if you find the right leverage anyone can be bought. Think Don Corleone, “I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.” The Penguin is the ultimate businessman.

7) And finally, for those who can’t “visualize” the Penguin, perhaps this would help: imagine a combination of Sydney Greenstreet in the Maltese Falcon with Joe Pesci (from GoodFellas and Casino), Sam Jaffe (Asphalt Jungle), Armin Mueller-Stahl (Eastern Promises), Bob Hoskins (the Long Good Friday), and a very heavy dose of Edward G. Robinson. Just look at the fake 1940’s Orson Welles’ Batman trailer on youtube - how can you say he doesn’t work as a Batman foe after looking at Edward G. Robinson’s “version” of the Penguin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc

Sorry to ramble on, but I am a big fan of the Penguin and think he has been getting a short end of the stick.

The Riddler- Johnny Depp...maybe Jim Carrey. Hell, Jeremy Piven can pull it off too.

Penguin- That's simple...Philip Seymour Hoffman

Bane- Not too many big, good actors out there so I will go with The Rock.

Mr. Freeze- Bruce Willis ftw.

Catwoman- Kate Beckinsale. I dunno who else. I didn't have much time to think about it.

I think Nolan could actually do a very realistic portrayal of the Poison Ivy character. She doesn't necessarily need plant powers, or even be an eco-terrorist. I could by her as a homicidal temptress who woos rich playboys / important politicians / government agents and murders them using plant toxins for both purposes. That could also lend to her costume:

Green lingerie!(Sorry, had to throw it out there. I am a guy, after all.)

An attempt at seducing Bruce Wayne would also be a great tie in for the comic charater. And just imagine a team up between Poison Ivy and Two-Face!